HomeProject ChatHelp with Katia Memory Cabled Pullover Please!
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2/3/2011 2:46:01 PM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
The yarn is on sale at Elann and the pattern is in the free section. The yarn hasn't gotten here yet, but did download the pattern and looked it over. I am a novice at sweaters, have only made a few, mostly I knit a lot of lace and thought I knew what i was doing, but am fairly confused with this pattern. Hope I don't sound too idiotic! I keep thinking the answer is probably simple and I'm just not seeing it.

The pattern guage is 20 rows = 4" in reverse stockinette. Start by knitting a fairly wide waistband, and pick up along the edge to start the body of the sweater, and knit 8" before beginning armhole shaping.

The back is knit in reverse stockinette for 8", so that would be 40 rows.

The front is a cable and rib pattern, and the pattern repeat is 38 rows. The instructions say to repeat the pattern twice, then repeat the last two rows only of the pattern until reaching 8" before beginning armhole shaping (actually it says 16" but I'm assuming that's an error). So we have at least 76 rows.

As I said, I am not really experienced with sweaters, am I misreading this or are there patterns where the number of rows on one side are nearly double the other side? Especially when one side is heavily patterned? I thought maybe there was a misprint and they meant to only repeat the pattern once, but I enlarged the picture and it does appear the pattern is done twice. Then I thought maybe there was a misprint on the back instructions and they meant to knit 16", but the schematics show 8" between the waistband and the arms, and in the picture the sweater doesn't appear to be that long.

Any insight would really be appreciated, thanks so much.
2/3/2011 5:03:19 PM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
Gauge is 14 stitches and 20 rows = 4" in stocking stitch (or reverse stocking stitch).
Pattern is telling you that for the smallest size, there is an 8 inch border, followed by 8" of upper body to the underarm = 16 inches. On the back, this upper body is knitted in reverse stocking stitch, and knitting continues up to the neck and shoulders in reverse stocking stitch.

The fronts change to Chart B after the first 8" and continue with repeats of Chart B up to the shoulders. You will have the same number of rows (more or less) to the same place on back and front, BUT the patterns will be different (reverse stocking stitch and Chart B)
Instructions should say, when front piece measures 16" start armhole shaping.

Hope this helps. Post again if you need more explanation.

Alice
Salt Spring Island
2/4/2011 2:43:01 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Thank you Alice, but I guess I do need more explanation. Not sure what you mean by border.

According to the instructions, you knit a bottom piece sideways, which ends up measuring 10" wide, one for the back and one for the front. The instructions for the back after completing the bottom piece read:

Upper piece:

With smaller needles pick up all sts at right side of lower piece, change to larger needles and work in reverse stockinette st, increasing or decreasing evenly along on first row as necessary, until you have 62 sts.
Armholes:
When upper piece measures 8", bind off at each edge every 2 rows 3 sts 1 time, 2 sts 1 time, 1 st 2 time, 48 stitches
Shoulders:
When upper piece measures 14.75" bind/cast off at ech edge 12 sts.
Neckline:
When upper piece measures 16" bind off all remaining sts.

Instructions for front after knitting bottom piece read:

Upper piece:
With smaller needles pick up sts at right edge of lower piece
Change to larger needles and increase or decrease evenly along on first row as necessary until you have 78 sts
Following graph B for pattern st work as follows:
20 reverse stockinette sts, 38 pattern sts, 20 reverse stockinette sts
Note: after work rows 1 through 38 according to graph B a total of 2 times, repeat rows 35 through 38 only and at the same time:
Armholes:
When upper piece measures 16" bind off at each edge every 2 rows 3 sts 1 time, 2 sts 1 time, 1 st 2 times, 64 sts
Neckline:
When upper piece measures 12", bind off center 18 sts
Working each side separately, bind off at neck edge every 2 rows 5 sts 1 time
Shoulder:
When upper piece measures 14.75", bind off at armhole edge (beginning of wrong side row, 12 sts
Work other side the same, reversing shaping

I'm really not understanding the math. The instructions for the back read to knit the upper piece to 8", according to the guage that would be 40 rows, then begin the armhole shaping. For the front, the instructions read to repeat the graph twice, for a total of 76 rows, then the last 4 rows until reaching 16" for armhole shaping, then reduces the inches in the following instructions to begin the neckline at 12". According to the schematics, the distance between the lower piece to the armholes is 8", and the entire upper piece should measure 15.25", which is also different from the 16" given for the entire length of the back piece given in the written instructions.

Maybe once I start knitting things will be clearer, but the measurements just aren't adding up the same for both pieces taking into account that they refer throughout to the upper piece only.

Sorry for taking up so much time here.
2/4/2011 10:43:19 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
BACK
The bottom piece (border) is knit from side to side. The 41 stitches that you cast on are part of the side seam of the finished sweater. Only the middle rows of this piece are worked in the fancy pattern (rows 9-33 of Chart A) with each side in 2x3 rib. The ridges of rib will run horizontally on the body when sweater is worn. Once the piece is 17.5" long (smallest size), cast off. The cast off-edge is part of the other side seam. Now turn the piece you have just knitted so that the former 'length' is now horizontal. Pick up stitches along the top (the 17.5" side) of the piece. Turn and knit across, fudging, if necessary, to get 62 stitches (smallest size). Next row (Right Side) purl. Continue in reverse stocking stitch (as now established) vertically to the armholes, perform the decreases, and then continue to shoulders and neck.
The bottom piece measures about 10" stretched flat, the next section is 8" to the armholes, the next is 6.75" to the start of shoulder shaping (14.75" of vertical knitting in reverse stocking stitch), and shoulder and neck shaping increase that to 16". The back neck is slightly higher than the shoulders. So 10" + 16" = 26" total length from centre of back neck to hem.

FRONT
Knit the same rectangle 10" x 17.5". Turn sideways. Pick up 78 stitches (It's 78 stitch for the front because the cables draw in the knitting making it narrower from side to side - this is why the bottom curves upward at centre front). Now you are going to knit 20 stitches in reverse stocking stitch, 38 stitches in pattern from Chart B, and 20 stitches in stocking stitch. The next part should read: continue as established until vertical section (from the picked up stitches) is 8", then work armhole decreases. Continue for 4" more (8" + 4" = 12") and begin beck shaping. When vertical piece reaches 14.75" (same as back) begin shoulder shaping. Because the front has a lowered not raised neckline, the front will be the same measurement as the back at the end of shoulder shaping but NOT at the centre of the neck.


I think you'll be fine once you start knitting - but don't toss away in despair if in trouble - post again.

Alice
Salt Spring Island
2/5/2011 3:52:04 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Thank you Alice, if you don't teach a knitting class you should, that is such a clear explanation. Thanks for taking the time. So I can just ignore the instruction to repeat the graph twice before starting the armhole shaping on the front, knit the 8", which is really only one repeat of the graph. That was my first instinct, but when I looked at the picture I saw that the pattern was repeated twice, but after reading your post I looked at it again and now I clearly see that the second repeat starts right about when the armhole shaping, even though the pattern says to only do the ribbing after the armhole shaping starts. Duh. I knew it was going to be a simple explanation. Pattern errors scare me, I'm not sure enough of myself and the fixes I come up with.

Dianne
2/5/2011 9:44:58 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
dmannarino-901452 wrote:
Thank you Alice, if you don't teach a knitting class you should, that is such a clear explanation. Thanks for taking the time. So I can just ignore the instruction to repeat the graph twice before starting the armhole shaping on the front, knit the 8", which is really only one repeat of the graph. That was my first instinct, but when I looked at the picture I saw that the pattern was repeated twice, but after reading your post I looked at it again and now I clearly see that the second repeat starts right about when the armhole shaping, even though the pattern says to only do the ribbing after the armhole shaping starts. Duh. I knew it was going to be a simple explanation. Pattern errors scare me, I'm not sure enough of myself and the fixes I come up with.

Dianne
2/5/2011 9:57:07 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
Hi Dianne

Actually I do teach knitting class - I put on week-long retreats here on Salt Spring Island every June. Have put on two retreats in Britain as well - one in Scotland and one on the Welsh Borders.
I must admit, too, that I taught high school English for 30 years. For the last 10 or so we became a very multi-ethnic school with 25 - 40% ESL students. They need clear, step-by-step instructions in chronological order if they are going to succeed. They have enough difficulties working in a second or third language without getting muddled up between answering the question (or making the product) and the instructions. Knitters are much the same - they can almost always do the pattern if it's presented one step at a time.
Still have space in the June 19th to 26th retreat - post if you would like info.

Alice
Salt Spring Island
2/5/2011 10:58:46 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Hi Alice, lol, so I got it right on your teaching. I had to look up where Salt Spring Island is, as much as I would love to, going to be financially impossible this year. I'd love to be on your mailing list, or whatever you do to promote the retreat, maybe next year.

Thanks again for all your help!

Dianne
2/6/2011 10:27:13 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
Love to have you sometime.
Where do you live? Last year, the farthest away came from Florida. Lots have come from California, as well as repeaters from Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin, Colorado, as well as the close ones from Washington State.
Alice
Salt Spring Island
2/7/2011 3:17:55 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
I live in Ohio, haven't been that far west much, just to San Diego once, and Portland once, fell in love with Portland. I was looking at some info on your island, just beautiful! Defintely would love to attend some future year. If you need my email its dmannarino@sbcglobal.net.

I started my sweater, almost done with both lower pieces, loving it so far.
2/7/2011 7:35:07 AM
psophia17
psophia17
Posts 100
Hi Alice and Dianne,

Thanks so much for posting the question, Dianne, and Alice, thanks for your detailed answer. The error in the pattern has been corrected.

All the best,
Petra
2/7/2011 8:58:54 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
Thanks, Petra.

Alice
2/7/2011 11:38:23 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Thanks Petra, I just looked and even I would have understood it as rewritten I feel like such a dope for not seeing all I had to do was change 16" to 8" and it made sense.
edited by dmannarino-901452 on 2/7/2011
2/8/2011 3:40:05 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Gah, struggling with the math again on the front. After knitting the 8" to begin the armhole shaping, which is enough rows for one repeat of the graph, the instructions then say to begin the neckline at 12", not enough rows to repeat the graph, the graph would be about half complete. The picture shows two complete repeats. If I add 2", start the neckline at 14", it gives me the correct number of rows for the pattern repeat, and enough left over rows to do the neckline shaping, that takes me to the same length as the back, but not sure if that makes the neck area way too small. I'm going to complete the back and then knit the front and fiddle I guess.
edited by dmannarino-901452 on 2/8/2011
2/8/2011 10:37:40 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
Hi Dianne
First check your row gauge - should be 20 rows = 4" which is 5 rows to the inch in reverse stocking stitch
Check the row gauge of the cable pattern in Chart B - it'll be different. Write it down.

2 repeats of Chart B + rows 35 to 38 = 38 + 38 + 4 = 80 rows. This will turn out to be less than 16" at the centre front (in the middle of the cable pattern). BUT you do not have 16" of reverse stocking stitch to work with.

Let's look at mesurement - 8" from the join between the bottom piece and the middle piece to the armhole decreases matches the back - so that's correct.
4" more to the bottom of the neck shaping matches the schematic. It's impossible to tell from the photo as it's covered by the scarf.
The neck decreases take a maximum of 10 rows - not enough depth for the neck unless the row gauge for the cable is a bit tigher than 20 rows= 4". Meanwhile those 10 rows in reverse stocking stitch will add 2" to the length making it 14" . By adding 3-4 rows straight on each side, upper piece will measure 14.75", ready for shoulder bind off (and matching back length).

I think that the best thing to do is to knit according to the schematic, measured in the reverse stocking stitch. Wherever the pattern in Chart B ends, it ends. Knit the back first and make the front match.

Alice
Salt Spring Island
2/9/2011 5:00:55 AM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Thanks again Alice, what would I do without you? I was thinking the same thing, just end the pattern at 12" and start the neckline, it takes me up just a little better then half the repeat. I don't know though, is it possible there's an error in the graph? When I did the lower pieces I did the cabling pattern wrong, so worried about what comes next I didn't pay enough attention to the instructions and did not put in the plain rib rows between each cable row, just did straight cable. My guage is accurate, 20 rows = 4" in the rib pattern, even with my mistake the bottom pieces are dead on measurement, without the missing rows. I was going to rip them both out and do them again with all the rows, but then they'll be too long. And I looked at the blown up picture again and my bottoms looke exactly like the bottom in the picture. So I was thinking, maybe my mistake was really the right thing to do. If I take out the rows between the cables in the upper pieces, could easily get two repeats in. Just a thought.
edited by dmannarino-901452 on 2/9/2011
2/10/2011 10:22:32 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
I'm not quite sure what you did. Is it:
You cast on 41 stitches for the bottom part and then knitted a 19 stitch repeat instead of a 38 stitch repeat from Chart A? or you didn't do the R1 and R2 repeat parts? The 41 stitches establish the height of your lower piece. As long as you do the same on the front, it won't matter.
I swatched Chart B last night - 38 rows. That chart is correct. The k3 P2 rows between the cables add a little bit of flex to the upper piece. You do not want it to be like a breastplate. They add a little stretch (not much) and prevent the knitting from being too rigid. I'd but them in and knit the full 38 rows for each repeat in the upper piece.

The only differences between Charts A and B are the 3 stitches in reverse stocking stitch 'border' at the start of RS rows and the R1 and R2 repeats. I think the cabling parts are correct. It's a nice knot knitted up and a clever way to do it.

Do report progress!
Alice
Salt Spring Island
2/10/2011 5:16:22 PM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
First, thanks Alice for taking so much time with this, I really appreciate it.

What I did. I'm making the second smallest size. Cast on the 41 stitches, repeated the first 8 rows til I reached the 9" that's called for in the pattern, then did the cabling rows, but I skipped all the rib rows between the cabling rows - that's 12 missing rows, then repeated rows 35 to 38 for another 9". The cable area measured 1-1/2", and I had the correct length 19=1/2" as the instructions state, even with the missing rows.

I swatched pattern B last night too doing it per the chart, and really its not much more flexible then doing it without the rib rows between, even missing those rows and with all the cross overs its still quite flexible. So I decided to stick with my error and do it the same way in the upper pieces. I may live to regret it and have to tear it all out, but I really like the way the knots look and feel, and I can get the two full repeats on the upper piece that I've been fretting so much about. I've picked up and started knitting the back, while I was knitting the lower pieces I started fretting over the yarn color, I dithered around so much deciding whether I wanted to make this or not that I waited too long and the color I wanted was gone so I settled for something far more colorful then what I really wanted. But now that I've gotten some of the back done, I really like it, its going to be one colorful sweater, lol.

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks so much!
edited by dmannarino-901452 on 2/10/2011
2/12/2011 3:31:40 PM
dmannarino
dmannarino
Posts 11
Got the front done up to the armhole shaping, and so far skipping the rib rows between the cabling rows is working out fine. Gauge is on target, front matches the back in width and length. I was worried that the tightness might pull the reverse stockinette on either side out of line, but it hasn't, its all in line.
2/13/2011 9:07:46 AM
Alice Trueman
Alice Trueman
Posts 1784
Great! Don't even pause now!
Alice
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