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5/6/2004 10:07:40 AM
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MacChick
Posts 3589
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Love your top-down! How far are you on it now? (I see the picture was posted a couple of days ago) Have you gotten into the sleeves yet? Are you going to do them one at a time? Or both simultaneously? (There are pros and cons to both ways!) I really enjoyed doing the sleeves top-down. My sister has short arms for her height, and this method made it very, very easy to get the sleeves the exact right length, from neck-to-wrist.
I can`t wait to hear how you like this method when you have finished the sleeves and are working the main body, because I was pretty thrilled after I`d seen how wonderful the armpits are... it is so natural... so "pure knitting"... Oh, and I can`t wait to hear how you feel when you bind off and that`s it... no finishing whatsoever!
Your increases are giving a very pleasing geometric design to the yoke. I`m using this method on my daughter`s beach poncho, and I like the look. On my sister`s cas cables variaton, I made the increases in bursts of one row with lots of increases, then a bubnch of rows with none, to get a less-defined look... thinking it would go better with her face. I`m trying to decide between set-in sleeves and raglan sleeves for the next top-down adventure.
I was exerimenting with trying to come up with a top-down tank pattern for my daughter, then after making 3 of them, remembered there`s a pattern for those in that same book! They go fast and come out nice. And the "finishing" is only to knit or crochet a border around the armholes and neckline... and even that is optional. So you can really tear through those rather quickly.
Keep us all updated with photos and commentary! This is all so exciting!
I liked your idea of pre-felting the wool a little bit. It instantly made me wonder what effects could be gained from doing this with wool of a heavier gauge, too. I think Classic Elite or one of those big companies was selling some pre-felted wool yarn last year, in several weights. It`s a perfect solution for converting laceweight to DK weight, though!
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5/6/2004 11:51:00 AM
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Shui Kuen Kozinski
Posts 13217
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Love to hear from you. I am still have 2 inches to go to reach the underarm.MacChick, how long is your cardigan?
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5/6/2004 3:11:04 PM
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bea
Posts 624
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Which book has all this top-down stuff in it? I`d love to check it out. :-)
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5/7/2004 9:01:20 AM
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MacChick
Posts 3589
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Shui... armpit-to-waist on mine was 14", as I recall. Already sent it to my sis, so I can`t measure. On the phone, with my Mom measuring my sis, I got the following body measurements:
neck to wrist
armpit to wrist
Then I told her to go measure any sweater she already owned that fit the way she wanted this one to fit... to lay it on her bed and get me these measurements:
neck to armpit
armpit to waist (actually to wherever she wanted the bottom of the sweater to be)
mid-ribs to waist (for cable section)
chest measurement
(The reason I got the sleeve length measurements directly off her body is that her arms are short for her height, and she has never had any sleeves really fit correctly)
In this way, the sweater was very easy to make as a top-down... I switched over to sleeves when I had reached my neck-to-armpit measurement... stopped the sleeves when I had reached my neck-to-wrist measurement... and so on.
When my sister got the sweater, she said it was the first sweater she has ever had in her life that actually fit perfectly right!
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5/7/2004 9:16:12 AM
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MacChick
Posts 3589
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"Knitting From The Top," by Barbara Walker.
You can find it at most libraries. If you do, and it`s one of the old copies with the geeky 70`s photos in it, do yourself a favor and get past them to the actual text... it is well worth it. I signed this book out SEVERL times before I actually got past the photos... eac time they were such a huge turn-off, that I ended up thinking, "Why did I request this book? I would NEVER knit any of thes horrid tings!" Then one day I actually read the text... then I couldn`t live without the book.
After you have realized that you cannot live without this book, you can come back here and get a new copy from Elann.com. I tried for quite awhile to get it on eBay and other places for cheaper than retail, but it nearly always sells at or above retail... it`s apparently a VERY popular book.
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5/7/2004 11:36:09 AM
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Shui Kuen Kozinski
Posts 13217
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Bea: MacChick is right, this is a very good book. It is not exactly a pattern instruction book which you can follow stitch by stitch. I like both EZ and Walker`s book because they are creative. For that reason, I love MacChick`s cardigan, because it is not a copy. It is her own design.
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5/9/2004 1:43:52 PM
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Guest
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Your knitting is always so wonderful!
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5/9/2004 1:50:35 PM
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jeanflores
Posts 2658
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Lovely sweater, Shui Kuen... as usual!
Peace,
Jean
Ansbach, Germany
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5/9/2004 3:28:18 PM
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Guest
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Beautiful sweaters Shui Kuen!! I like the dual tone for the cable sweater. Do you prefer knitting raglan sleeves?
Heather
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5/9/2004 6:33:57 PM
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Jamie
Posts 3462
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Shui Kuen, Again some beautiful sweaters. You live in such a beautiful place, and can really enjoy your sweaters. Enjoy your springtime gardening. The seasons place so quickly! Jamie in Colorado where we had some spring, then winter again, and now a bit of summer temps...what fun!
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5/10/2004 4:24:20 AM
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Shui Kuen Kozinski
Posts 13217
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Heather:I learn raglan sleeves when I was teenager. I think it is the easiest way to do the sleeves. 90% of my sweater is done this way. It also fit better on me and on my husband. I have never done drop shoulder sleeves in my life. I am doing one now for my husband as an experiment. I don`t know how will that end up.
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5/10/2004 11:02:07 AM
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Guest
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Agree! Beautiful creations - an inspiration.
Beatrice
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5/10/2004 11:55:12 AM
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Les
Posts 4243
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Great sweaters! Doesn`t that cable stand out in the contrasting colour! Very sharp!
Lesley
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5/10/2004 12:16:58 PM
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patw
Posts 2826
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Very, very beautiful and well constructed sweaters. I don`t think you look like a lion either and I love the effect!
Patw
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5/11/2004 6:36:14 AM
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MacChick
Posts 3589
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Oh, I love these... especially the two-color... are those cables or a color pattern that looks like cables?
I like raglan sleeves, too, for the comfort. And I definitely prefer them for children`s things, because kids can wear raglan sleeves for longer than set-in sleeves... once a kid begins to outgrow something with a defined shoulder line, it`s very obvious and uncomfortable.
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5/11/2004 5:32:15 PM
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Shui Kuen Kozinski
Posts 13217
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Those are real cables.
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5/15/2004 5:04:59 AM
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MacChick
Posts 3589
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On your top-down... for dividing the yoke into body and sleeves:
Since EZ says to make sleeve increases until you reach 33% of body, I use this formula:
(guage) X (33% of sweater chest diameter) = sts for one sleeve at the point where sleeve joins body
But don`t forget that you have to include the armpit stitches (x2) in the chest diameter.
I DEFINITELY blend the "percentage system" of EZ into everything as a guideline, so I agree with you about consulting those books when you have doubts about construction, but I`m confused about the idea of putting in short rows to make the back of the neck higher, beacause you already took care of that shaping when you started with the "crescent of knitting" as B. Walker calls it (the part she`s discussing on pg 22)... when you first cast on the back neck stitches, then worked back and forth for awhile, increasing on each side as you form the "crescent of knitting" before casting on the front neck stitches and joining the knitting to work in rounds. Maybe you can tell me more about what you are doing... did you omit the "crescent" and do short rows instead?
Here`s what I now use for "pattern directions" for top-down yoke sweater construction. It is a cross between B, Walker`s method and EZ`s percentage-based formulas. I think it is probably quite like what you are doing, except that I did the sleeves before the body (not that it matters at all which comes first... I chose sleeves first only because I knew I wanted to do the sleeves both at the same time on 2 circs, like a pair of socks, and I thought this would be less cumbersome if I did it before I had the sweater`s body done... less bulky stuff getting in the way).
Anyway, here are my notes, in case any of these numbers are helpful to you.
100% = chest diameter of sweater (I used inches)
100% (measured in stitches) = chest x gauge
NECK SHAPING
CO 40% of stitches, work in rows, back and forth for 3", increasing evenly across to 60% of stitches. For front shaping, place markers (@ 1 stitch from ea end, to start) & inc 1 st on ea end on all RS rows to create rounded neck. Front increases should be included in the 60%.
YOKE
CO sts for ctr front (to make front = back in number of sts), and work in ROUNDS from here
Work for 2," then inc to 90% sts
Work for 5," then inc to 134% widest part of Yoke
This is arrived at by: Body(100%) + both full sleeves (66% total) – armpits (8% x 4) = 134%
SLEEVES
Move back sts onto a string, move right sleeve sts to a circ, then move front sts to a string.
Count to verify armpit sts:
For Each Sleeve 25% + 8% = 33% sts.
For Body (8% x2) + front + back = 100% sts.
CO armpit sts, mark armpit ctr and join to form left sleeve sts; knit one round of left sleeve.
Repeat with right sleeve.
Move both sleeves to share the same two circs, like a pair of socks. (OR just knit ea sleeve separately.)
Knit 1" plain, then work 2 dec.s, at ea armpit ctr, every 4 to 6 rounds.
BODY
With 24" (or anything close) Circ, pick up right sleeve`s FRONT armpit sts, starting at armpit ctr, then move body`s Front sts from string onto same circ, then pick up left sleeve`s FRONT armpit sts to armpit ctr. 50% of sts should now be on the circ.
Repeat process for BACK armpit & body sts
Knit around and around and around until your sweater is as long as you want it to be. Bind Off. You`re almost all done.
Neckline finishing: pick up the neck stitches and knit a ribbing or other neck band for about 3 or 4 rounds.
Shui, I can`t wait to see each phase of your sweater! We should start a poll to see how many other people here are knitting top-down... several have mentioned it so far, but there could be others! (Isn`t this fun?)
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5/15/2004 6:20:11 PM
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ScullyKnits
Posts 2451
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I haven`t tried it yet, but I`m going to. Just went and bought BW`s book. I have a business trip begining on Friday for a whole week. Lots of knitting time. I`ll be finishing the 2 sleeves on 2 circs and trying a top down tank. I`ll post pictures when done.
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5/16/2004 4:31:44 AM
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Shui Kuen Kozinski
Posts 13217
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MacChick: I printed your message out and going to compare with my sweater. I thank you again, you spend so much time with me. I am considering to unraval the short rows. I want to make a perfect fit one just like yours. I will let you know how I am doing. I take all your points serious. Shui Kuen
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5/16/2004 8:37:14 PM
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MacChick
Posts 3589
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I take all your points seriously, too... so I will be curious to hear how your notes compare with mine, and then I will try out the differences and make changes to my notes.
I feel my increases for the yoke are the main weak point at this time... they are based on the EZ decreases (but backwards) for a circular Fair Isle yoke, and they work, but I think a better shaping could be achieved by spacing them out less... the opposite extreme is the raglan sleeve decreases made on every other round. B. Walker says as long as you keep the rate of increases at something that comes out to 4 sts per round, and mentions that for some stitch or color patterns, you have to delay the increases like this (pg 23, 24), but I`m inclined to think it should be avoided whenever possible, this business of making all the increases suddenly in just two or three rounds placed several inches apart, like I have been doing. Even in a Fair Isle pattern, you can make the pattern incorporate the increases... like they do in tam patterns and the "Tree" yoke patterns discussed in Ann Feitelson`s book. So I guess I am looking for a more graceful yoke shaping, something that curves... gradual increases in some places, but still some sudden ones in some places... I`m going to have to work in fabric to figure it out, I think... math is not my strong point.
I`ll be VERY interested in hearing what various increase patterns you have tried, that`s for sure. And Skullyknits, when she tries it, and the others who are doing this top-down / in-the-round stuff... there are lots of others here, I think, who have been doing it for quite awhile.
Can`t wait to read your notes on your experiments with this!
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