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2/4/2005 10:02:51 AM
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ScullyKnits
Posts 2451
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Can one charge for a chemo cap?
I knit a hat for the wife of a colleauge. Made it with Berroco Zap - Pomegranite color. Definitely on the wild side, but so is the recipient. It was quite the hit at the clinic and several people have wanted to know where to get one.
I`m torn between my need to finish projects for my family (some long awaited) and wanting to brighten the day of someone in dire circumstances. If I knit for the chemo patients, can I charge enough to cover the materials (Zap at LYS runs $25 per hat, a bit less on Ebay)?
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2/4/2005 10:36:28 AM
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ecasey
Posts 2668
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I would say so - it`s not like you`re making a profit. If someone went into a clothing store looking for a chemo cap, they`d have to pay for it. If someone couldn`t afford it, then maybe that`s a different thing - but that`s probably not the case here.
Sometimes (non-knitters especially) people "put in their orders" for things having seen someone else sporting the item, without any real understanding as to the time it takes to make, or that yarn is actually very expensive - especially Berroco and the luxury yarns. (One of the ladies my husband works with asked him if she could get one in purple when she saw his Oxblood Elsebeth Lavold sweater - and she was only half joking). Perhaps people whose grandmothers or mothers used to knit still have the mindset that people knit to make themselves garments more cheaply than buying them. It might have been true once, but definitely not now. If you just churn out a dozen more caps in a week, at no charge, you know what`s going to happen, don`t you?? You`ll be sked for more! LOL. People will just think that there is no real input on your end and that asking for one is like asking someone who wears I watch if they can tell you waht time it is. Really, I would let people know subtley how much the yarn costs you, and how much time it takes to knit (even something like a chemo cap takes time compared to snatching one up off a shelf and taking it to the cashier) - that way you should get reimbursed for the yarn, and appreciated for your time.
DH used to do hospice work and found that while cancer is devastating (and you know, these were hospice patients, so we`re not talking about recovery), the people in there wanted others to see the person, not the cancer, and to be to be treated normally.
They would expect to pay for a hat if they weren`t sick - I really don`t think they`d be offended if you asked them to cover your costs.
Eileen.
--
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the STARS!" (Oscar Wilde)
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2/4/2005 10:52:21 AM
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emily3cat
Posts 900
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You didn`t say who asked you for caps...Was it other patients getting chemo? Or nurses? And how well do you know them?
If a friend of mine undergoing chemo asked me for a hat, I would buy the yarn and knit it for nothing. If a stranger undergoing chemo asked me to knit a hat for them, I would probably weigh my options, but most likely would say something like, "Sure, I`ll be happy to, but would you spring for the yarn, as I`m on a strict budget." I would put in the labor for free. I might invite them to come with me to the yarn store to pick out what they wanted and to save me the uncomfortable situation of having money handed to me. If they come to the store with me, then they will pay for it directly. That`s a lot easier psychologically for both parties, I think.
Now, if all of a sudden I had "orders" for 10 chemo caps, then I would begin to tell people that I would be happy to direct them to knitting shops which taught knitting and be "on call" for questions. I imagine that it might be quite nice to learn a new skill while having to spend a lot of time sitting around watching stuff drip into your arm.
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2/4/2005 11:15:07 AM
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Guest
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I`m with the rest - at least charge for the yarn and maybe a little for yourself.
I also laughed at the "I can direct you to knitting shops." PLB gets rave reviews on her ponchos. All the other second grade girls ask me every time I go to school "Can you make me one?" I always say, tell your Mommy to call me and I`ll teach her how to make you one. I have yet to receive one phone call!
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2/4/2005 2:39:37 PM
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Guest
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I think Eileen covered this pretty fully. I once had a friend come in my home, see some premie caps I had knitted, and ask me if she could purchase one for a friend of hers who had recently had a premature baby. I had knitted them for charity and it was just sitting there, so I did not take any money - although honestly, that was no hardship as I think the acrylic involved might have cost me about 25 cents at the most. I think that one of the reasons I insisted she just take it was that she was so concerned about NOT paying for it - she was a person who appreciates these things.
Plenty of people would be very happy to buy a pretty Chemo cap for a friend if they saw a nice one in a store and probably would be very happy to pay for your materials and perhaps a bit for your time.
I agree that people just don`t always realize what is involved, that having the person pick out the yarn and pay for it lessens the feeling that you are taking money from them - which in that case you aren`t, and that if you don`t make people subtly aware of these things they may impose on you without having any real idea of what they are doing - and let`s face it,we would not want to impose on someone else that way, and they probably don`t want to, either.
T
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2/4/2005 5:22:35 PM
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bets
Posts 18976
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I think you should invite them to LYS to pick out the yarn. Or send them to Bobbi`s to pick it out-tell them what to get, and how much of it.
I think that`s the most diplomatic. The stuff is not cheap! (Unless they have a skill to barter....)
I have also offered to teach people to knit---plenty of people say "MAKE ME_____!" but suddenly lose interest when you say "No, but I`ll show you how!" No takers here, either.
B
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2/4/2005 5:44:15 PM
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benne
Posts 19258
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Chris,
I agree with what has been said here, it is unreasonable to expect you to pay for the yarn for the hats. Most people are unaware of yarn costs. I don`t think anyone would expect you to hand them twenty-five dollars because they have cancer. What if you printed up a sheet listing the yarn, approximate cost, LYS where the yarn can be purchased and they can take lessons, and your pattern? Wouldn`t that encourage those who want one to 1)knit one for themselves 2)have someone they know or someone close to them make one for them 3)learn to knit if they don`t already know how and as emily3cats said, find a new way to pass the time while receiving treatment.
I`ve made several chemo caps for friends and charity but that was my choice to pay for the yarn and make the caps.
Benne
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2/5/2005 11:30:16 AM
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ScullyKnits
Posts 2451
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Thanks everyone for the input. I`m proud to make them for people I know, but thought I should be paid making them for strangers. Good to know I`m not out of line. I can get some Zap for a good deal on Ebay. Think I`ll order some and make up a few when the mood strikes.
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3/7/2005 7:50:44 PM
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ChristineC
Posts 480
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Okay, I need opinions on this:
I just received some yarn I`d bought on Ebay ~ nice seller, quick shipping, etc. My problem is that included with the yarn she sent was a photocopied Oat Couture pattern ~ all 5 pages of it. Fortunately, it`s one I already purchased, so I won`t be guilty of using it, but I`m wondering if I should....
1) Inform the seller that copying patterns is illegal or,
2) Notify Oat Couture that the seller is copying the pattern and sending it to others, or
3) Do both, or
4) Do nothing
What do you all think?
Christine
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3/7/2005 7:57:59 PM
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bets
Posts 18976
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Was the pattern advertised as part of the transaction?
First off, make sure she`s left your feedback before you do anything-some sellers get REALLY icky really fast.
I`m of a mind to do both-e-mail her, be very straight forward and not accusatory, and cc: Oat C.
B
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3/8/2005 5:08:18 AM
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Cate
Posts 2212
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Dang, I just saw a link to Copyright info for Knitters last night but it was while following a long chain of links. Anyway, if you have a link to such information, I would email her asking if she was aware of copyright restrictions, include the link & then see how she responds. If it is Ooops! I didn`t realize! I would let it drop. If you get no reply after several days or a self justification, I would then send a copy of all correspondence to Oat Couture.
Cate
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3/8/2005 5:25:49 AM
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Guest
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I would certainly do something. If this is a fairly active seller, it can be a significant problem. A polite note, expressing surprize at the enclosure and asking if the copy is legal is appropriate. You can go on to explain that have already purchased the pattern and if the copyright has been violated you will destroy the copy. If you cc Oat C, you can then let the issue drop. You could work in a complement about the pattern in a mention that it is one you have already purchased.
I am not a complete stickler for copyright details. In cases where a pattern is out of print or out of stock for a prolonged time, I might try to find a photocopy. I did send a copy of a pattern along with some yarn. I had planned on the pattern, but didn`t like how the swatches were coming out. That pattern is now offered for free here at Elann with the purchase of the yarn.
Carol in VA
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3/8/2005 6:46:12 AM
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ScullyKnits
Posts 2451
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I would politely inform her of copyright restrictions and encourage her not to copy patterns. I would not notify Oat Couture unless you suspect a pattern of behavior. She may not have been thinking through the ramifications of her actions.
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3/8/2005 7:33:11 AM
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Guest
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I think we are all probably guilty of photocopying a pattern here and there, either for ourselves or for someone else. I am curious as to whether the pattern was advertised in the auction, or if she just included it because maybe she had planned on using it with that yarn and never did, so she thought you might like a copy. If she advertised it, it`s one thing. If she just included it as a confidential "favor", I`d cut her some slack.
Besides - I`ve often wondered what the "morality" of re-selling patterns is - I mean, I buy and sell out of print knitting magazines, current knitting patterns and pattern books on ebay all the time. If you think about it, the original writers of the patterns don`t receive any proceeds from the sales, and technically none of the ebay sellers are "authorized agents". Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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3/8/2005 11:28:43 AM
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emily3cat
Posts 900
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I would suggest that you read about copyright on this website, as she addresses the matter for crafters. http://www.girlfromauntie.com/
You might also send a copy of her information to the seller. It`s not right to include a photocopied pattern from Oat Couture with your order because Oat Couture is a business which is attempting to stay in business. Or you might just write to Oat Couture and have them handle the nasty side of this, if they want to take it on. I would imagine that they would be pretty peeved.
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3/8/2005 6:44:08 PM
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ChristineC
Posts 480
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Thanks, everyone.
She did mention "a pattern" in the Ebay listing, but as the yarn is old, and foreign, I just assumed that "a pattern that goes with the yarn" meant that it too would be an old pattern, not one currently for sale by an existing company. (I love old patterns, even if they don`t turn out to be something I`d make) I think I`ll probably take all of your advice, and contact her first, explaining (thanks for the link, Emily!)after she leaves me feedback, and see what happens. If she doesn`t respond, or if the response is such that I think she could care less, then I will notify Oat Couture. I surely don`t want to see this sort of thing continuing on Ebay.
I`ll keep you posted on how it`s going. Thanks again
Christine
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3/9/2005 10:23:20 AM
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emily3cat
Posts 900
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Hey, happy to help. It`s just come up before on different knitting lists. One person who writes and sells patterns was really, really mad when she discovered that an e-bayer was SELLING copies of her pattern. Complete with pictures stolen from the author`s website. When the pattern`s author contacted the e-bay seller saying "cease and desist", the e-bay seller gave a whole sob story about being out of work, yadda, yadda, yadda. But being out of work does not give people a licence to steal from others, whether the stealing is bread from the corner store or copyrighted patterns. Nor does owning a copy machine and wanting to give people a "bonus gift" with a purchase give someone the licence to steal. Because the "bonus gift" is only costing the author of the pattern money. If the e-bayer had included a pattern that SHE WROTE or an ORIGINAL pattern (of any vintage), now that would be a proper "bonus gift."
There is the notion of "fair use" here in the states, but photocopying a copyrighted pattern to include with a sale does not fall under the rubric of "fair use."
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